Ah yes. Makes perfect sense.

My only question now is, how did a piece of rubber get THRU the timing belt cover? It must have been dropped in there when someone had the upper covers off.

That actually can happen. There are a few people on this forum who have experienced that... On the other hand, I struggle to believe they reset the belt in an hour - I really struggle to believe that. Unless of course they didn't take off the tensioner and do it properly. Guess you could just "jump" the belt back into place though

+1

redoing just a tooth on timing is still a major pain in the ssa. It's not something you just "pop" back into place. still smells fishy to me. He told you the chunk of rubber was still chillin' in the t-belt cover?

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I have another question. Are they going to run a compression test to see if there's any valve damage or just slap it back together and return it to you?

Probably just slap it back together and call it good. The last couple times I went out there and we listened to it there didn't sound like there was any damage to the valves, isn't that audibly noticeable? The MAS isn't going to be here until next week so I can have them run a comp test after they get the MAS back on.

I'll have to ask him again on the timing being off a tooth, but when I talked to the SA he said that the timing looked sound now.

Also, the mechanic mentioned that the seals on the turbos were starting to look worn and cracked. He didn't have an immediate concern but said that it could come up next year. I'm not sure if he was insinuating that this could have been part of the running problem had he found them to be bad. I gotta face the facts though, the car is pushing 17 years old, is this the kind of deal where I pull the turbos before winter sets in and send them off to have the seals replaced? Do some preventative maintenance before they break? Seems like I've seen shops that do this for rather reasonable.

Anyway, I'll plan on having them drop in the MAS and run a compression test and let you all know the results. As far as something being dropped in, the only thing I can think of is when I had it at the mitsu shop down the road that may have happened. The timing has not been apart on that car any other time in the last eight years.

Thanks for all the points, I'm making a list for Chad to go down and talk face-to-face with the mechanic. I think some of the problem here is the translation from the service advisor. I have always found this mechanic to be honest and forthright with his analysis and explanation once you are actually talking to him. They don't make any money on parts, so there is not as much incentive to over-diagnose problems. Still some, don't get me wrong, but it's not like they are making 400 bucks on a MAS like the Mitsu dealership is, in fact they prefer that I supply the parts.

Thanks again,

Bret

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San Marino Red - Honda 3KGT VR4 For the win!

Wow that is one bad a$$ mechanic if he can tell the seal are bad just by looking at the turbos while they are still in the car.

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'94 vr4- Now with extra slowness

what seals under the turbos? wtf... I mean seriously...

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

Unless he means the return line gasket is leaking or the oil feed line crush washers are leaking. I guess those count as turbo seals.

There's no way to tell if the bearing seals are any good without disassembling the turbo unless he's assuming they are bad because he found oil in the innercooler pipes or exhaust.

yeah, but he said "worn and cracked"

how does a copper crushwasher get "worn and cracked?" Maybe the return line gasket... I guess that's the only thing I can see, but even then... there's no pressure in those lines... don't worry about it 'til there's oil coming out.

I personally think that Bret is experiencing "Monkeys, Monkeys everywhere" syndrome, and I feel bad for him...

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a ....


This place is full of shit - as we discovered with post #1. Hopefully they fix the car, but don't believe anything they are telling you. "Looks like the turbo seals are getting worn" - what a bunch of shit. Feel free to tell this dealership that I said that - not that they'll care, but feel free to tell them anyways.

And this is after taking it down the road guys, this isn't the same dealership as post #1. We are back to the classic problem. The cars are complex, they are getting old, and I haven't found anyone in West Michigan that can reliably work on them, period. It really puts me in a bind. I may have to trailer it out to WI once a year and have a fix Bret's pimp ride day. Like I said though, this is interpreting from the SA, I'm going to talk to the mechanic Monday and write down specifically what language he is speaking, it may shed a lot of light on it. You know how it goes with these things, a user says their "monitor" is broken and they mean their actual computer. I'll get all the details when I bring the MAS down.

Bret

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San Marino Red - Honda 3KGT VR4 For the win!

We'll, as you can imagine, I have no good news to report. Picked up a MAS for 100 bucks and SURPRISE, it didn't fix the problem. I'm spending money I don't have on this and can't keep it up any longer. I think I'm going to pull the car and put it in storage for the winter. . .broken. . .and come up with something else in the spring. There just isn't anyone reliable over here that can trouble-shoot these cars and I'm out of options and loot.

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San Marino Red - Honda 3KGT VR4 For the win!

Okay so... They reset the timing and the car still runs like crap?

Do I need to make a trip out there?

They tell me that they did take the time and took the timing apart and put it back together legit, not jumping the belt or anything crazy like that. The car idles great but flakes out when you get it over 2k rpm's or so and starts running like shit. At this point I am going to need to trailer the car to someone that can fix it, or import someone. Obviously I would be thrilled to have you swing through here on your way to WI. Barring that from happening, I will probably store it for the winter and trailer it to WI next year for the UMG in May and prevail upon all my WI friends to fix my car. I honestly don't know what else to do. I have had two "professional" shops make two completely different diagnosis and neither of them could fix it. I have now lost all faith and need to seek answers elsewhere. The crazy thing about the timing is that it is running exactly the same as when I brought it in the shop with supposed bad timing. Exactly. How can that be. I think they may be making excuses to not have to renege on charging me labor and say "well that didn't fix the problem but it was still broken". Don't know, I'm at a loss, made two calls to the dealer today and they didn't call me back. I'm going in tomorrow to pick up the car and cash out regardless.

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San Marino Red - Honda 3KGT VR4 For the win!

Have Chad go thru the list that I made for you on the last page. I'd even be willing to walk him thru it over the phone.

I'm flying out to WI and back this time otherwise I'd be happy to make a detour and check it out.