Bret,

And I'm sure Greg will jump in here when he sees this also... The odds of one car having jumped timing, a bad ECU, and bad fuel pump all at once are, well - BULLSHIT!

Is there any other place up there you can take it? We can find another car to try your ECU in and elimate that as a cause - or confirm it as a cause. Have someone else verify the timing is off - someone who wasn't born on Mars and thinks the ECU has to be "programmed".

Don't pay for these "repairs" - something sounds a little fishy here.

I'll lay money on it it's the $6 relay, not the pump.

Send the ECU off to Jon and then let's see what we have.

SJ

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The car will not run with the timing off 26 degrees... You're looken at bent valves if that's the case. Can you have Chad line up the timing marks and see if one of the cams are off?

The ECU controls the when the FEUL PUMP RELAY activates or not. I can see a short in the feul pump resistor back tracking to the ECU and frying the driver. Much like when there's a short in the ISC, the same thing can happen. The damage will be easily visable. Just pull the ECU and look at it for burn spots.

If this is the case, simply removing the relay and running a jumper will fix it. A lot of guys do this anyway. http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumprelaybypass.htm

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06 Blue EVO 9

Thanks for the quick advice, I kinda thought it was starting to smell a bit like some of my ex-girlfriends myself.

Yes they want to sell me the 500 fuel pump assembly, typical.

They said it's a relay that sits next to the ECU, whichever one that is.

I am taking the car down the road to a Dodge dealership and a guy that worked on all of their stealths for a second opinion, he has done good work for me in the past.

The mitsu tech apparently put a tester to the ecu and determined it bad, he said nothing about noticeable burn marks.

Again, thanks for the reply, I'll keep you apprized of what the other tech says. I wish I could have got the car over to WI for you guys to diagnose, timing just wasn't right.

Bret

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San Marino Red - Honda 3KGT VR4 For the win!

Okay. That relay is the MFI relay. That's does other things.

Man, I wish there was such a thing as a device that you could just hook up to the ECU so it could tell you if it was bad or not...

Greg, there is such a device - it's called the "let's fuck the little guy device". All techs at dealerships know how to use it.

Update: Took the car down the street for a 2nd opinion and [shock!], they had a completely different diagnosis. Fuel filter and clean the injectors. I'm going to have them do it, it's only a couple hundred bucks and the timing isn't off at all. . . . SURPRISE! I'll keep you posted. Gotta love those certified Mitsubishi mechanics at the dealership. F-bags.

Bret

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San Marino Red - Honda 3KGT VR4 For the win!

I'm glad you didn't trust the first diagnosis ...

cruiseinperformance will clean the injectors and flow test them to make sure they are within 1% of each other. last time I had it done it was 8 dollars an injector + shipping.

I have NO idea how a dealership will clean injectors... other than run an additive in the gas.

you can change the fuel filter in about 45 minutes to an hour for a first time mechanic, but it does take line wrenches and can suck on cars that have never been changed... so maybe a mech would be better for you...

just an FYI.

did you get the swivel driver? if not, I'll get a tracking number search going.

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Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

If ya wana send the injectors in I could help you change the filter (I thought you already got a new one??). I think we are gona be playin poker again saturday if ya wana swing bye.

I let the mechanic do it. It is getting really difficult to find good help on these cars these days. If anything makes me sell my car it will be from spinning my wheels, spending money I don't have on repairs that don't fix the car.

They changed the fuel filter and cleaned the injectors, took it for a test drive and had the balls to tell me it ran great. I went to pick it up. . . NO CHANGE, the diagnosis was incorrect and the repair was unnecessary. They had the gall to tell me that they were experiencing a little turbo-lag, which I thought, OK, a seasoned service advisor would recognize the second or two of lag before the turbos inject. The car was so bad I couldn't even drive it out of the parking lot, f'ing ridiculous that you would honestly think they would sell the cars like that and expect them to go down the road, what an idiot.

Would a couple of you friggin' move to Michigan already!

I'm running out of car repair loot!

I got the wrench a couple days ago, thanks! Do I owe you anything for shipping?

Gabe, I did have the filter I just hadn't put it in yet.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Bret

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San Marino Red - Honda 3KGT VR4 For the win!

Bret,

nothing for shipping. don't worry about it.

Sucks about the car.

What have you all changed at this point, and what are the exact symptoms that still persist at this point... (so bad it doesn't go down the road.)

Did you tell the dealer it was this bad? especially if they told you it ran great. Something is wrong or someone is lying. I abhore being lied to by dealerships...

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Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

Just talked to the dealership again. Here is the skinny:

They replaced the oil filter and some little gaskets or valves or something on the fuel line, junk parts, a few bucks worth of fittings of some sort.

They also ran fuel injector through the injectors to clean them or something along those lines.

Apparently the tech said the car WAS running great, he swore it was. He drove it again and he couldn't believe it degraded so quickly but promised it was running fine when he parked it.

He thinks there is something in the gas tank so now he is going to pump the fuel out, pull the oil filter out and clean it again, and this time pull the injectors and visually inspect them and make a recommendation if I need new ones.

He also said there was very little chance that a tank of bad gas would make it run this poorly IE: did someone put something in your tank and I told him to inspect the gas he pumped out because my house has been vandalized three times this year already so I shouldn't be surprised if someone did put something in the tank.

Basically what happens is it is really jerky and hesitates as it goes down the road. It is nearly undriveable, but if I keep it below 2k rpms, IE shifting very quickly and not driving faster than 50 to 55 in 5th gear it will go down the road. Nothing you want to be driving though.

The tech said there are no codes coming from the engine and he is certain it is the fuel delivery, ie starving for fuel. He said something about putting propane into something or something to test the fuel system, ring a bell?

Thanks again, I'm sure you are all enthralled with my epic tale of misery and woe, the bill is $500 and counting. The only good news is that if someone did vandalize it that it is all paid for by insurance.

QUESTIONS:

What size are the stock injectors for the VR4? Are they different than non-turbo DOHC? The only ones I can find on e-bay are 550cc which I assume are larger than stock. The rest on ebay just say from DOHC. Any good sources for injectors?

If someone did put a foreign substance into my gas tank, what kind of damage could that have done? Any damage to the engine? Also, what would be the best form of torture/death to incur upon the individual responsible?

Thanks,

Bret

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San Marino Red - Honda 3KGT VR4 For the win!

So what you're saying is: Someone forced the gas cover open, poured "something" into your tank, and closed it, all without leaving some kind of mark on the pannel or cover?

Since we know that's bogus, they must have broken into your car, didn't see anything worth stealing, so they got upset, released the feul door, and poured "something" into the gas tank?

That must be it.

Now, on top of all this, this guys is going to pull the fuel injectors, and somehow will be able to see if the pintle mechanism is bad just by "looking" at it. Common.... There's procedures in the manual for testing the feul injectors without even pulling them.

By what you describe and what I know has been done to the car recently (although, I'm not there, I'm just going by what you said), I'm going to suggest starting the flowing:

Sparkplug wires are in the wrong order.
Run a compression test.
Check the timing marks AGAIN (you gotta pull the lower cover off to see the crank mark)
Remove the ECU, opened up, visually examined for signs of overloaded/fried drivers and leaky capasitors
Remove the front heatshied from the exhaust manifold and examine it for cracks. <- willing to put $$ down on this being the issue

If all those check out:

Ignition coils are NOT cracked (which you would be able to SEE them sparking with the motor running)

A datalogger has confirmed the MAS, TPS, and O2 sensors are working.

The car has been pressure tested and has NO major vaccume leaks.

Check for clogged cat

IF EVERYTHING CHECKS OUT, report back and I'll toss out more realistic causes for the issues you're having.

Tell you what Brett. If all those things I mentioned are fine and check out, I will personally drive to your house and figure out the issue.

Hell, I'm even willing to get on the phone with your mechanic and walk him thru everything.