Hey all. Just got back in from St. L. It was good to meet up with another 3S crew that was as insane as the W3SI crew.

I'll try to post more on it later, but for right now let me say that Von is the most experienced 3/S guru it has ever been my privialige to talk to. I can sum it all up in one word. WOW.

We talked for quite a while about single turbos, we cleaned up my car from the firewall forward, and fixed everything up that we had managed to mess up on my car.

If I had a question he was more than willing to teach me, provided I didn't try to sit and argue with him, as he explained it the first time, and if you didn't get it he expected you to stop, and think for a while. Then if you still didn't understand it ask more questions.

I found out the BOV was hooked up way wrong. Compressor surge is bad at ANY boost level, even low boost/vacuum, and it kills turbos. My DR500's are shot. The rear one is leaking oil like a sieve. So, I now need a new battle plan, and I have to say a big single doesn't look like it would suck, but I do like my precat Elims...

So I'll I don't know what I'll do.

Keith's 9B car on AEM can peak at 21 psi. I shit you not.

I thought I spun a bearing on the way home. turned out we messed one thing up on the clutch install. Zip tieing the oil pressure sending unit line away from the rear O2 and rear turbo...

I highly recommend Von, or xwire on 3si and us3s. He's forgotten more about these cars than I will probably ever know. But realize that when you bring the car down, it's his operating room. You can be a nurse and hand him stuff, maybe turn a wrench if he deems you worthy, but don't second guess him.

There is some much more on my car that I will be fixing in the next few WEEKS that Von pointed out, but didn't have time to fix.

I have pics, let me know who can host.

Adam

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Explain.

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06 Blue EVO 9

Adam:

Welcome home.

Send your pix to Matt Rink.

9B's eh? Think the emanage can do that?

Best,

SJ

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The nipple that we hooked onto was the pack of the Y-pipe. the BOV needs a vacuum source. Getting vacuum off the back of the Y-pipe is similar to finding a virgin in a whore house.

any compressor surge is bad. we moved it to a spot on the plenum and, POOF. no more surge. to late for the turbo though...

He also didn't like the source that I was sending through the boost control solenoid, but when I argued with him, and he told me to go sit down and think about it for a while. Then I forgot to ask more questions, as I was busy bench pressing a tranny. He did give me 10 cool points for where I mounted the solenoid. but then I lost 20 for the BOV. D'oh.

actually twice, we pulled his tranny out, too. I worked on xwires car!!! It'll probably be slower now...

Turns out he is not a fan of equal length headers, nor re-circulating BOVs. He tried to get me to run mine open loop while I was there. I'm gonna have to look into that. He did make good arguements.



with the ultimate, maybe. but the trick will be getting it to run like stock after that. keith can run ANY sized injectors he wants. His tune supposidly never drifts. It's a pretty sweet set up. I did not get to talk to either of them enough about AEM. That's for my next trip down, I suppose.

Von hates the stock ECU because of it's continued meddling with any tune that you set on it. He even thinks that my EGT probe being pulled is causing my car to "tune drift" Or at least it will eventually.

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You must have done that. When I did your vac reduction, I hooked it to the stock location which was the large nipple after the throttle body. I also hooked your boost sollinoid to the nipple on the y-pipe.

What do you mean here Adam -- idle? Race gas? Please ellaborate.

Thanks,

SJ

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obviously.

It's not that big of a deal.

but you did say that compressor surge in low boost wasn't that big of a deal. and I have also been telling people that, also. Mrink, mainly for me, I believe.

So I need to clear that up right away. That's why I posted it.

I was also told to get a front mount. Von seems to have a problem with side mounts. he is not a big fan of any of them, be it DSM, HKS, Alamo, or DR side mounts.

of course he's probably pretty spoiled running that water to air intercooler. the rest of us have to deal with what we can get our hands on.

He had so much to say, I should have brought a tape recorder. I've forgotten half the sweet ideas he gave me, already.

He also had other neat little tricks for taking crap apart that was really pretty cool, but, again after being up for 48 hours straight and bench pressing two trannys into place I was not on my A-game mentally.

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if you go with big enough injectors to run 21 psi that hot, your car will suffer in drivability many ways. Such as if you adjust it by hertz, you will have idle problems, also hot re-start problems. it will be way rich. you will also have problems with timing.

The ultimate has stuff that none of us have played with before, like the ability to directly affect the injector duty cycle without messing with the hertz signal from the MAS at all, but at that point your re-writing your map anyway.

I still stand by the statement that the Greddy Emanage Ultimate is the closest thing to a standalone that you can get. the biggest plus of this set-up, then, is the fact that you can plug it in and not do anything to the car. Just sit there and play with on thing at a time, and see what it affects. then as you learn more, you can mess with more. The power of a standalone that you can slowly walk through, and learn as you go

Not everyone wants all that though... and most people have a hard time learning to crawl as they watch everyone else walk. I know I do.

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That's been my experience. I had a 16g that did that for about a year before the new owner of that car got a better BOV for it. The stock crushed DSM one wouldn't open at low boost. AFAIK, that turbo is still doing well on that car.

I'm not arguing compressor surge didn't kill your turbos, but they've had to put up with several 20+psi runs and a BOV that wouldn't open properly. That's what killed your turbo.

b.t.w. Some turbo dodges don't even have BOV's.

well, then keep telling people it won't hurt there turbos. I, however, will not. and argue with you.


BOV worked fine at above 3~4 psi.


Good to know for people who have dodges. Dodge won't even admit to making my car.

The whole thing started when Von laughed at my hookup. (he did say that my car was less of a rats nest than by far most of the cars that he worked on.

Then he started pulling shit out and bam, he goes "turbos blown. got shaft play. probably from your blow off valve."

I started talking more about it, and asking questions, and made the "Didn't know compressor surge at low boost would hurt it."

To which he responded, "GN's didn't run BOVs back in the day for the same reason. then they started to rebuild there turbos after every racing season. how many summers do you have on your turbos?"

"One."

He just smiled.

So, if you feel compressor surge isn't bad, be that guy. I'm jumping to the other side of the fence, however.

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

What happened Saturday morning? I called you back around noon I think to make sure you were all good down there, but no reply.

My post help? US3S is fucked up.

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yeah, I got down there, but lost cell reception once I got to xwire's house. apparently my parents also tried to call me.

Greg ended up logging on and getting me "found"

US3S is back up. I forget what keith said was the problem. he got it reworked now.

It all worked out. nothing to it.

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Bad decisions make good stories.
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You missed my point. I don't believe 3-4 psi compressor surges played as big a factor as you think in the death of the turbo. I'm not arguing that compressor surge isn't a bad thing. I'm saying it's not any worse for wear than reving your motor to 7 grand.

Now I wonder if that studdering problem wasn't somehow because of the BOV...

No. No I did not. Think of it this way. A turbo spins at 70,000 RPM. That's not slow. even at low boost, or vacuum it's still 10,000~20,000 RPM. That sound is the compressor stopping and the hitting that RPM again(over and over again) because it must be forced backwards. (I also realize that you know this, just again posting for other people that might not.) With the DR turbos and the mismatched compressor to exhaust wheel it really makes a huge difference. also the fact that they stay with the small shafts from the 9bs.

One side of that shaft wants to go one way, and the other wants the exact opposite. not good. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Any surge is bad surge. it's like knock. there is no such thing as OK knock.

I have not had a chance to check for the stutter, as I'm suppose to be nice to my clutch for the first 500 miles. City driving... sigh...

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Bad decisions make good stories.
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That's a better way to describe my thinking on this. Typically under 7 counts of knock, I don't worry about either... (note: this isn't how I tune other peoples cars) To me, the damage is negledgable... Just like 3-4 psi compressor surge. In fact, I think I recall saying this at the NG when we were tuning your car before the rain...

Difference of opinion. Guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree.

One thing I hadn't really considered before. The shafts on TD04's are a lot smaller than the shafts on TD05's...