http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php ... ost2702622

I've seen this kid post at LEAST 5 or 6 different threads asking about how he should mod his VR4. The kid is 15 years old and doesn't even have a driver's license. He's CONSTANTLY asking about drag racing, road racing, upgrading his VR4, dumping TONS of money into it, and I can't yet figure out, how the fuck he's going to DRIVE the car to the NG legally (which he says he's attending).

Keep him the hell off the road when I'm driving mine. I don't need to see my car smashed up as a result of some dumbass 15 year old kid driving like a complete fucknuts. Geez, this irritates me.

Am I over-reacting? Please set me straight if I am. Respond on that thread if you want. argh.

J

_________________

Best in Show - NG07
2010 - 6G74/3.5L E16Gs - 688awhp/679awtq (Race+Meth)
2011 - 6G74/3.5L 68HTAs - 740awhp/762awtq (Race+Meth)
2013 - 6G74/3.5L MTC Stage4 - 908awhp/832awtq (Race+Meth)

Well not saying he's like me, but at 15, I drove very well and raced around with my temps...LOL.

But he's prolly not like me. He's prolly some spoiled rich kid who thinks he's invincible. Also prolly driving down with his daddy which would make 15 years old legal.

AND NO, YOU ARENT OVER-REACTING. I wouldnt want some inexpirienced kid driving liek a maniac near my priceless ride either.

_________________
~Joe - aka spider gear destroyer
'94 Stealth R/T
-Lightly Modded ;)

You really can't argue with logic like that. I'm sure you agree that it's good that he's excited about the platform, but it sounds like he's really reaching for attention and acceptance from the group.

His posts sound like a lot of 3si posts. "Hey, I'm converting my SL to an AWD turbo with a 6-speed, what parts do I need? Can I beat a blah blah blah [F-body or Stang or Honda] with that setup? My buddy says I can't. What mods should I get when I'm done????!!!!1111" Then again, who am I to talk...

FWIW, I wouldn't want to drive near him either.

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"Well-weathered leather, hot metal and oil, the scented country air,
Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape, every nerve aware..."



meastie beastie

My biggest gripe is that this kid has posted a LOT of messages on 3SI in the last month or so asking about a TON of shit. I mean, for instance, in one thread, he was asking about whether he should get a DR800 turbo setup in his VR4 he was setting up for road coursing. WTF - you can't even particpate in ANY HPDE event when your under 18, let alone 15. He goes on and on about how much he wants to blow the doors off all other cars on the road course with his high HP vr4. Not even having a single CLUE that HP isn't what makes a FAST road course car. Tires, brakes, and good driving eat up HP any day of the week. This kid just frustrates me. He posts the same shit day after day and just doesn't seem to get it. Although, I guess at 15, I can't blame him.

_________________

Best in Show - NG07
2010 - 6G74/3.5L E16Gs - 688awhp/679awtq (Race+Meth)
2011 - 6G74/3.5L 68HTAs - 740awhp/762awtq (Race+Meth)
2013 - 6G74/3.5L MTC Stage4 - 908awhp/832awtq (Race+Meth)

..

Hrmm.

"Have a beer...." now see, that's good advice. Someone shoulda said that earlier.

Ok, first off, I would like to point out that this kid is from nebraska. My cousin was driving at 13 here in wisconsin on that farmers kid liscense thing... Who the hell knows what's in Nebraska that makes driving legal/illegal. WTF is there to hit in Nebraska that's worth anything anyways? Hell, I learned how to drive stick on a volkswagen beetle when I was 14. I was driving a water truck when I was 15. Then again, my stick skills may have been sharpened by that, but my driving skills were not that well improved from it.

I'm pretty sure that the national gathering is in Michigan, though... and that's not Nebraska. Does that mean that this kid won't head out there though. Like Jesse said, he doesn't seem to get it, so he probably will.

Am I that worried about this kid driving next to me... Maybe. I personally feel there are people who have been driving for 5~10 years that are more dangerous than this kid out there. I can't count the number of times on both hands I have been run OFF the highway(both right and left lanes) by an old lady or a 16~18 year old with there liscence, or by some dumbass on a cell phone in a Mercedes... oh wait, I'm that guy now... damn. when did that happen?

Not to mention the fact that just because this kid posts with the intelligence of a beat up piece of plastic doesn't mean he can't drive. Look at any given nascar racer... Ward Burton comes to mind quickly...

There was a handful of kids racing at luxemburg in the truck and street stock classes when my family ran the race track. 14 year old in a truck with daddy's money went pretty fast as I recall. I seem to remember him putting it on the roof once, also though.

I'd like to meet the kid before I decide if I want to roll with him. He might be an ok kid. He might be pretty mellow in his ride. If it's not daddy's money and he dropped 10,000 on his car, that's probably a fortune to him, and he won't want it wrecked either. Just saying, maybe we should meet him away from a keyboard 'fore we judge him. my 2 cents.

Ok, I'm done. just one more thing before I go. Last time I checked HP never sucked in racing Jesse

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Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

Changed my mind. I've got another thing to say. You get a group of enthusiasts together that are proud of there above average hp cars (like us) and juvenille things are going to happen. I'm not sure age has anything to do with it... now I'm done for real... I promise.

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Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

Depends what kind of racing you're talking about. If it's open tracking, HP hardly means shit in comparison to other things likes brakes, driving, tires, and handling. What good is it to fly down the front straight at 150mph, if you a) can't brake, b) can't stick through the corner, c) can't have a high corner entry speed, and d) can't have a high cornet exit speed. Without those things, high HP is worthless for good lap times. Fun? Sure. Good for lap times? No.

Take two people coming into a corner like turn 2 at Gingerman, or the turn 1 at Road America. One person with low HP but good tires, brakes, handling, and driving skills can enter that corner at 65-70mph and come out at over 85-90mph and carry that speed (and acceleration) down the hill towards turn 3. Another person with high HP but without good tires, brakes, handling, and driving skills will have to enter those turns at much lower speeds, like 50mph at corner in, and probably around 65-70mph at corner exit. So now he has to "make up" a 15mph disadvantage on the straight before the next turn. His extra ponies will help him accelerate the straight, but he's playing catchup the whole time. He can never really make use of his MaD PaWWaH because he can't corner worth a darn. On top of that, he'll likely be frustrated his 450hp car can't seem to pass the 300hp car in front of him. Sucks to be him.

_________________

Best in Show - NG07
2010 - 6G74/3.5L E16Gs - 688awhp/679awtq (Race+Meth)
2011 - 6G74/3.5L 68HTAs - 740awhp/762awtq (Race+Meth)
2013 - 6G74/3.5L MTC Stage4 - 908awhp/832awtq (Race+Meth)

I'm going to have to play devils advocate here.

I have never heard ANY racecar driver of ANY kind say "man, I wish my car had about 50 less horsepower. I mean, it's just got too good of a power band." And I grew up with a IMCA modified in my garage. I spent every weekend from ~2 years old to ~6 years old at my uncle's race shop. Then from ~8 years old to ~18 years old running luxemburg speedway. that's almost 15 years of listening to racecar drivers whine like little girls. and if you don't think racers whine your not racing...

I'll agree that it's not the end all be all of motorsports, but like I said, horsepower does not suck. The guys from the state shoot-outs with 25,000 dollar motors in their roundy-round cars always smoked the locals with who had max 5,000 in there engines. Now I'm not saying that it's all hp. The guys from the state shows are way more dialed in as far as suspension goes, but pure driving ability I believe to be more equal. they are mandated to run the same tires, and brakes. of course you can cheat, but it's not cheating if you don't get caught.

And when they are side by side coming out of turn two, and by the end of the back stretch going into turn three one guy has a car and a half on the other guy he's not thinking hmmm. should I spend more money on brake pads next week?

I also remember at Elkhart lake with my old jag cruising around the track with a chrysler sebring behind me. he had a better suspension for going around corners. his car was also faster until about 80 mph, then the gearing and MAD PAWWAR of the ol' straight six fireball engine would put me and my father by him and his girlfriend on the front stretch. I guess the brakes were better on the jag, but my point is as soon as I went by him on the front stretch it was to hard for him to pass anywhere else. I might have to go into a corner 10 mph slower than him, but that just meant he had to slow his car down too cause he couldn't get around my car's fat ass. On the rare occasion that he did get by me, on the front stretch I'd run by him again until he smoked his brakes and went off the coarse in front of corvette corale. (my dad has a picture of there car afterwards with his girl full of the kitty litter, I'll have to see if I can find it.)

So in order to beat ass at a competition you had better show up with the whole nine yards. A good driver first and foremost. A good driver can work with a car that handles poorly and make it go fast. Then comes the rest. Stopping, handling, AND raw unadultered power. better show up with all of it in spades, cause you know someone else will.

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

Hmm... I don't think we're in disagreement, just looking at it from different viewpoints. Look, extra HP is never a bad thing. Duh. LOL. However, the extra HP hardly does you much good if you can't control your car.

Recently, Philip at Supercar Engineering was trying to figure out whether he should spend equals amount of money to either upgrade an additional 40HP on his car, or spend money on grip instead. After reviewing his track logs and data (this guy has recordings of everything when he drives: g-forces, corner in/corner out speeds, maxi-mani quadjunctioner, etc.) he determined that spending the same money on grip would improve his track time drastically (several seconds in lap time), whereas spending it on HP wouldn't buy him much of anything without the other supporting mods. Put it to the test, voila, bingo and ringadingding.

When you mention getting stuck behind someone in a corner that takes it slower than you, that's true. However, in HPDE events, that person in front of you, regardless of whether they put distance between you in the straights, is going to get blue/yellow flagged and told to let the car behind him (you) pass. *unless it is an open lapping event or something like that*

I agree, yeah, we'd all like an extra 50 HP, but that has to be taken with a grain of salt. 50 HP costs money. The far majority of knowledgable HPDE drivers would rather dump that same money into better brakes/handling instead of HP, UNLESS they already HAVE the brakes/handling and the lack of HP is the real reason they aren't turning lap times as good as they'd like. Again, we need to compare apples to apples here. A C5 vette isn't likely to get outdone by a Intregra on the roadcourse just because the Integra has upgraded brakes/handling. However, it's damn sure possible. I've seen it myself when I road with a few Integra guys at Gingerman that hunted NSX's and C5 vettes with EASE and all the guy had was minor BPU mods plus a a VERY good suspension package and awesome grip/tires. His driving was consistent and smooth (a necessity in HPDE). I laughed as we flew by brand new $60k sports cars like they were standing still. Now, of course Gingerman is a smaller course, and high HP wont' gain you as much there since the straights are much smaller and you have less chance to open it up.

So yeah, I'm not saying HP doesn't matter, but tires, suspension, brakes, and Drivers Skill can easily out-do HP on the track anyday - all other things being "relatively" equal. That doesn't mean HP doesn't help, it does, and it can easily be what you need to put you over the top and ahead of other drivers. I just get irritated with the notion that high HP is all you need to turn low lap times at HPDE events. Someone should tell Jon W he needed higher HP when he passed a modded viper at the NG04 in Indy with his BPU vr4. Driver skill and car setup is what Jon had working for him there.

_________________

Best in Show - NG07
2010 - 6G74/3.5L E16Gs - 688awhp/679awtq (Race+Meth)
2011 - 6G74/3.5L 68HTAs - 740awhp/762awtq (Race+Meth)
2013 - 6G74/3.5L MTC Stage4 - 908awhp/832awtq (Race+Meth)

he said he has an 18 year old girlfriend, lmao, she's a petifile.

For what it's worth, all I'm trying to get across is, if you take two relatively same cars, say two 1G Stealths that are bone stock. Take $900 and mod one car with a set of track tires, and the other car with $900 worth of performance mods, assuming driving skill is the same, there's no way the car with race tires is going to get beat by the one that spent money on performance mods. The tires alone would be enough to carry MUCH greater speeds in and out of the corners than someone who spent $900 on 40 more ponies.

I'm talking lap times here, not "racing" - big difference. Take out the "he's stuck behind him" factor since that doesn't come into play at real driving schools and HPDE events unless the people who run it are whacked or it's just an open hot-lapping day.

Did you just type that??!!!???!!!

Suspension is good. Horsepower is fun. More grip does not suck. Driver skill is still the most important aspect. And dispite what any one says, when I'm driving my car home it's still nice to have a few extra ponies to play with. That sinking into the back of the seat feeling... that's horsepower. Our cars come with more grip from four tires spinning than most(in a straight line, and out of a corner), so why not get a bit more horsepower. I don't have a track car. my car does see Elkhart lake's pavement ever now and then, but most of the time, when she's asked to perform it's to embarrass someone who has a fat head and not enough motor to back it up.



Can you imagine the beat down if they had their suspension dialed in though? I am not adovcating that horsepower is a subsitute for other areas of performance, but if you can have more, don't turn it down man!

Let me put it this way, Horsepower is like boobies.* more is just better. very true that with more comes added cost(and possible headaches ), but if you can foot the bill, cheers! And too much makes grown men grin like idiots and grunt like cavemen.




I wonder if she realizes that's 3 years with no sex, or else a trip to jail. Of course, it's nebraska or montana or some crap, so out there who knows, she might be his sister, or second wife.



*(or beer, or sex, or ~~insert something that you like alot and want more of~~)

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

True true and true.


Again true. But I would strongly caution: more horsepower is NOT always the best thing for a rookie driver. It can end up being a crutch and result in POOR skills, which the driver tries to make up for by "driving fast". Hell, for a rookie or a driver with minimal experience, the limitation to going faster is not the car (even a stock 3S), -- it's the driver himself. Please don't think you can fix bad driving with horsepower. That leads to accidents and people getting hurt eventually.


Yes, but, if you liken horsepower to boobies, please be aware.... A girl can be sportin' the biggest boobs in the world, but it means nothing if she's carrying them around on a 450 pound frame. Eww. Same thing with HP. HP can be a great asset, but it means nothing on a car that doesn't have the proper balance and setup and driving skill behind it.

Chew on that for awhile Cletus. Ha-ha-ha.

PS - aren't you going to ask me what a maxi-mani quadjunctioner is?

_________________

Best in Show - NG07
2010 - 6G74/3.5L E16Gs - 688awhp/679awtq (Race+Meth)
2011 - 6G74/3.5L 68HTAs - 740awhp/762awtq (Race+Meth)
2013 - 6G74/3.5L MTC Stage4 - 908awhp/832awtq (Race+Meth)