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1brett
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:27 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:49 pm Posts: 67 Location: De Pere
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Would anyone care to loan me an ECU or plug my ECU into your car? I've been battling a no-spark issue, and I'd really like to verify that this ECU is working. This is on a '92 Stealth TT. First thing I did was to have the ECU repaired by a guy on eBay in Winona MN, and I just want peace of mind that ECU is really out of the equation. Otherwise, this time it goes off to AvPro. 3si thread here for background: http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=379324Ignore the part about bad voltage from the coil pack harness, my mistake and corrected later in the thread. Right now, I'm at step 6 on page 13A-267 in the manual. I get no voltage from any of the 3 wires in the ignition control circuit on the PTU harness. I don't know if there is no signal for a good reason, or if I'm dealing with a bad ECU. All voltages and ground check fine on the CAS. Manual says "repair harness" for most of this ignition-related stuff, and that just sounds silly to me. There are 8 million and one quotes like this on 3si: Quote: if your caps are leaking and you have a first gen, your ecu has prob suffered damaged.
there are probably bad traces in there and you may get "erratic" problems.
The 92 ES i have just up and died, turned over fine, no spark. Ecu just quit.
they replaced multiple bad traces, and the caps. Fired right up, tranny computers can also go bad if you have an auto ...and I'm tiring of chasing down (real or fake) gremlins in the wiring, when this ECU crap is a known problem. I'm in the Green Bay area, and would be happy to drive/mail/pony express my ECU to you for a test-plug. Thanks! Brett
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G-ELL
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:10 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:18 am Posts: 3153 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
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Verify if your CAS is plugged in and then check the fuse for the ECU (orange 20amp) under the hood and the MFI relay (blue 15amp) in the cab. Check to make sure those are not blown.
_________________ 06 Blue EVO 9
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1brett
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:43 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:49 pm Posts: 67 Location: De Pere
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I appreciate the response Greg. This one has me about pulling my hair out.
CAS plugged in, check. Also replaced CAS with a used last week, no change.
Replaced ECI 20A and MFI 15A with new. Just pulled and rechecked both again, both test perfect.
I get B+ on ECU harness pin 62 and MFI relay harness pin 10 with ignition on.
Only thing I have found is that I am getting no control signal at PTU harness pins 1,2, and 3 while cranking(should be 0.5 to 4.0v).
What I don't know is if the ECU isn't sending the signals by accident, or if it has good reason not to fire the coils.
Thanks!
I check in at BAWC from time to time, see all you old(er)-schoolers hanging out there. 3si isn't the same now that that crowd (mostly) left. Almost all of the useful discussion is now via search, into the archives.
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blazing red dragon
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:24 pm |
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:48 pm Posts: 435
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if you still need to use one i got one you can use just make sure i get it back. its out a 93 vr-4
_________________ 91 Stealth TT
Black with Porno Red interior
Stock with 185k and still going.
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1brett
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:03 am |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:49 pm Posts: 67 Location: De Pere
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blazing red dragon wrote: if you still need to use one i got one you can use just make sure i get it back. its out a 93 vr-4 I would greatly appreciate that, but I'm not sure if '93 and '92 are interchangeable. John Monnin's site here says that the E2T numbers MUST match, can anyone confirm that? Or would any 91-93 ECU be enough to at least verify spark? You most definitely will get it back. I'll be glad to give you my address, phone, and any other info before borrowing it. Where are you located? Thanks! Brett
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blazing red dragon
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:29 pm |
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:48 pm Posts: 435
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yeah not a prob im not sure on that one either.
but im right in south milwaukee. im like 10min from i94 off rawson.
_________________ 91 Stealth TT
Black with Porno Red interior
Stock with 185k and still going.
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G-ELL
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:23 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:18 am Posts: 3153 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
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Sorry for not taking the time to read your threads, but it sounds like you need a fresh start/state of mind.
The ECUs from different years will plug in and work, it's just the timing will be off. That's a long story, but for test purposes, a 93-95 ECU will probably work. I have tried a 92 ECU in a 94 before, but not the other way around.
b.t.w. I want to confirm your CE lights DOES COME ON when you turn the ignition on.
You have confirmed power is getting to the ECU, next I would do a connectivity check of the corresponding ECU pins to the PTU. This is pretty straight forward. If the volt meter don't beep when you touch the pins, then it's obvious there's a break in the harness. I can't seem to find my wiring manual so I can't point out those pins for you ATM.
_________________ 06 Blue EVO 9
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1brett
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:33 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:49 pm Posts: 67 Location: De Pere
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Greg, I'd rather review than overlook something. I'm just glad to get a response. I know I should have done this testing before throwing parts at it -- but heck, the odds said that one of the main ignition system parts would be a nice, easy fix. So much for the odds. CE light does indeed come on (maybe 3 or 4 seconds) when I turn on ignition. ECU pins 10, 23, and 11 send the control signal voltage to PTU pins 1, 2, and 3. My $8 meter does not have continuity check, so I've been trying to get any kind of resistance reading tonight. Nothing. Tomorrow I'll pick up a better meter and test again. I should be able to get a resistance reading though, shouldn't I? I'm no electrician, I don't know. This is exactly where I quit testing last week, thinking that there is no way that each of these three wires are bad. That's when I started suspecting ECU. I suppose I could test for voltage at 10, 11, and 23 at the ECU harness while cranking? That should give me a pretty certain answer. Heck -- if I get my wife to turn the key while I test the ECU on the floor, my calculations show that I'll have a good chance to look up her skirt, too. haha, win-WIN! blazing red dragon, thanks a lot -- I'll try to work through this wiring before I throw in the towel on the ECU. Hopefully I don't even have to bother you for the ECU. Thanks, both of you guys -- I really appreciate the help! Brett
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ver fer
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:47 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 2:04 pm Posts: 767 Location: Oshkosh
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If your testing for continuity you should get no resistance or very little. If you get infinite resistance you have a broken wire some were.
_________________ '94 vr4- Now with extra slowness
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1brett
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:28 am |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:49 pm Posts: 67 Location: De Pere
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ver fer wrote: If your testing for continuity you should get no resistance or very little. If you get infinite resistance you have a broken wire some were. Thanks ver fer, I should have been more clear - I am indeed getting infinite resistance on all three wires. I figure I could be doing something stupid, like measuring the wrong harness pins or the wrong range on the meter -- but I spent a good deal of time on it last night, so I'm doubting that. One thing I don't understand -- in the course of poking at different ECU harness pins while the tester was plugged into the PTU harness pins 1,2, and 3, I did measure some resistance on a good number of random pins on the ECU harness. Anyone know if that's normal, or would it indicate a short? Doesn't seem right to me, but like I said, I don't know electrical. I'll get a better meter and check some more. Thanks for the help! Brett
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1brett
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:00 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:49 pm Posts: 67 Location: De Pere
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Okay, I got a meter home and tested. I'm getting no continuity through pins 1, 2, and 3 on the PTU harness, should be going to pins 10, 23, and 11 on the ECU harness.
What I AM getting is continuity to GROUND on pins 1 and 3 of the PTU harness.
I have a short to ground on those two wires. Sound correct?
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G-ELL
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:21 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:18 am Posts: 3153 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
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Correct. Start at the PTU, and work your way to the firewall on the passenger side and all the way to the ECU.
_________________ 06 Blue EVO 9
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1brett
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:03 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:49 pm Posts: 67 Location: De Pere
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Okay, that was a little bit of a letdown. My mistake -- while checking for continuity I was measuring 4, 5, and 6 on the PTU, holding the harness upside down. I have continuity from the REAL pins 1, 2, and 3 at the PTU harness to 10, 11, and 23 at the ECU harness. This is where I came in -- lost. So the ECU must not be sending the control signal voltages to pins 1, 2, and 3 on the PTU. Is there any good reason the ECU would have to not do this, or is the ECU hosed? Tomorrow, I'm going to go measure again at the PTU harness for the signal voltages while cranking. I want to be positive that I'm not getting anything. On the upside, I didn't get TOO far into the wiring harness before I decided to check continuity again. I'm not a retard, but I play one under my hood.
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1brett
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:04 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:49 pm Posts: 67 Location: De Pere
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Verified no signal voltage at PTU pins 1, 2, an 3, while cranking. Verified all proper voltages and continuity of ground on the CAS harness. With ignition on: 5v on pin 1, 5v on pin 2, and B+ on pin 3. While reviewing the CAS, I came across this on page 13A-107 in the manual: Quote: Hint 4: If the tachometer reads 0 rpm when the engine that has failed to start is cranked, the primary current of the ignition coil is not turned on and off. Therefore, troubles in the ignition circuit and ignition coil or faulty ignition power transistor is suspected. My tach reads 0 while cranking. Suspect troubles in the ignition circuit and coil or a faulty PTU? That's pretty broad, isn't it? I have replaced the PTU and coilpack with used already.
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ccrunner84
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:50 pm |
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:24 pm Posts: 285
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Brett, if your desperate for an ECU I've got a 93 aswell you could take to your place to troubleshoot. I'm way way south, Kenosha area though.
_________________ 1991 Stealth RT/TT
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