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JRink
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:46 am |
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:00 pm Posts: 871 Location: Eagle, WI
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This thread is to help answer questions that people may have regarding the upcoming Speed Seekers event this April in 2004. Questions should be focused ONLY on the event itself, NOT about pre/post track activities (for example, "where are we going to eat saturday night?"). Examples of VALID questions pertain to (but are not limited to): * prepping your car * competition levels and classes * safety concerns * brake pads and rotors * car maintenance during the event * getting rides as a passenger around the track * proper driving techniques * what spectators can do other than just watch * buyouts for track-time (splitting track costs with another person) * registration THIS THREAD IS FOR QUESTIONS ONLY. PLEASE DO NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS. All the answers will come from a panel made up by Philip Glazatov, Rich Merritt, Scott Cowan, and Jesse Rink. The reason we are doing it this way is to ensure the validity of the answer and make sure people get the correct information. When you post a question, please understand it make take a few days to get an answer. Philip and Rich both have countless hours of road course experience, make use of their knowledge. Please keep posts in this thread "on topic". Posts that do not meet the above rules will be deleted. Also, please make sure to check out www.speedseekers.com for additional information about the event. Thanks.
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vr-4maniac
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:33 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:08 am Posts: 205 Location: Amherst, Wisconsin (near Stevens Point)
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Excellent thread:
Here's are my questions:
Brake Pads. Of course we will be burning through some brakes during this event. I currently have Stillen Metal Matrix Pads on the car. Are there any particular brake pads that would fit on the stock calipers and rotors that are higly recommended?
Brake upgrades for me include: SS Brake Lines, Race Concepts Rotors, and DOT 4 Motul Fluid, along with the Metal Matrix Pads.
Are there any particular things one can do to their brakes prior to the event to help ensure quality braking throughout the event?
Brake Fluid. Should one change/bleed the master cylinder prior to the event. I don't plan on hanging with the big dogs by any means, but I do intend on pushing the car fairly hard for at least one session. The brakes are, of course, the biggest safety concern. Is there anything people with stock to lightly modified brakes can do to help ensure quality braking?
Thanks to Jesse and the rest of the team that made this Speed Seekers event possible. I'm excited to be on the same track as some of the names mentioned earlier.
Thanks.
Matt
_________________ 1993 Sandstone Gray Metallic VR-4 (1 of 56)
11.77@122
11.76@119
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My94r/t
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:11 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:04 am Posts: 1237 Location: Milwaukee, WI
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I don't have any questions, but I've been to this event in the past and it is awesome. I've had nothing but fun at Road America with these guys. OK, maybe one question: How many high-end cars will Jack T. be able to school in his VR-4 next year.
_________________ ~Joe - aka spider gear destroyer
'94 Stealth R/T
-Lightly Modded ;)
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JRink
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:25 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:00 pm Posts: 871 Location: Eagle, WI
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Just 2 quick side note I forgot to mention in the original thread. 1. If you haven't already, check out http://www.w3si.org/tips.doc for some good tips from Rich Merritt on prepping your car. 2. Registration for the event is supposed to be in early December. If you plan on taking your car on the track, check out http://www.speedseekers.com regularly to stay on top of the actual date. You will need to register with Speed Seekers themselves, this is not a W3SI registration or sign-up. If you are ONLY coming to the event to watch and learn, or grab a ride with one of us racers, you do NOT need to register as you will attend the event as a guest for $5. Matt, I forwarded your message to Rich and Phil for their review. I know Rich recommends bleeding your brakes prior to the event using the factory procedure and using Motul fluid. Good pads are are extremely important - especially in the front. I'd recommend checking out pads at http://www.supercar-engineering.com. Your choice of pads depends, I think, on how you plan to drive during the event... slow, fast, aggressively, passively, etc. For comparison, my brake setup at the track is going to be stock rotors, with Carbotech Panther XP pads in the front and rear. I am confident I will be able to run them through the weekend, and hopefully another event or two. This setup was recommended to me by Phil and I trust his opinion considering he's been there/done that. Of course, proper braking techniques must be used to make sure you get the most out of your pads. The instructors at the event will help us newbies understood how to properly apply the brakes too. I'll let Phil or Rich address more of your concerns, their experince far outweighs mine.
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Rich
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 2:15 pm |
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:44 pm Posts: 4 Location: Cedar Rapids
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>Brake Pads. Of course we will be burning through some brakes during this event. I currently have Stillen Metal Matrix Pads on the car. Are there any particular brake pads that would fit on the stock calipers and rotors that are higly recommended?
One day or two? You can get through one day on stock pads, even those gawdawful Metal Matrix pads. But you'll never do both days. If you are running both days, go to a race pad in the front. See what Philip has for a reasonably priced pad.
>Brake upgrades for me include: SS Brake Lines, Race Concepts Rotors, and DOT 4 Motul Fluid, along with the Metal Matrix Pads.
Never heard of the rotors. Not drilled or slotted are they? If you put them on to look pretty, and you still have a perfectly good set of stock rotors laying around, go back to the stockers for the weekend. Those pretty, shiny rotors break at the hat, especially Stillens. Can't beat a stock rotor.
>Are there any particular things one can do to their brakes prior to the event to help ensure quality braking throughout the event?
1. New pads up front. Stock or race. 2. Bleed the fluid. 3. Remove the dust shield up front. This lets cooling air in. Just unbolt the calipers and remove the rotor. Now, three or four small bolts hold the dust shield on. Let the ABS cable hang or tie wrap it. 4. Wipe some anti-sieze on the wheel studs. This will keep you from wringing off a wheel stud. 5. Install Speed Bleeders up front. Take a bleed valve out, go up to O'Reilly's or Autozone, and match it up very carefully. Watch for size and thread. They are dirt cheap ($12 a pair, and you'll need two per side), but they make brake bleeding oh-so-much easier. Get some 1/4 in. tubing at Menard's to capture the fluid, and an empty Coke can to put it in. 6. LISTEN TO YOUR INSTRUCTOR when he or she tells you HOW TO BRAKE. That will do the most for brake life.
In fact, go practice on the street: Approach a corner, hit the brakes hard at the last possible moment, get off, and turn in. It is the exact opposite of street driving, where you ease down on the brakes and hit them harder as you approach a stop. On the track, it's Get On, Get Off.
>Brake Fluid. Should one change/bleed the master cylinder prior to the event.
Nah. As long as you put that Motul 600 in there recently, you are OK
>I don't plan on hanging with the big dogs by any means
Where have I heard that before?
> but I do intend on pushing the car fairly hard for at least one session. The brakes are, of course, the biggest safety concern. Is there anything people with stock to lightly modified brakes can do to help ensure quality braking?
See above. And listen to your instructor. Chuck Willis, one of the fastest of us all and an instructor, still uses stock calipers and rotors.
Rich
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vr-4maniac
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:55 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:08 am Posts: 205 Location: Amherst, Wisconsin (near Stevens Point)
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Rich: Yes, the rotors are both slotted and Dimpled. I basically got them for looks, and they're relatively inexpensive. I was thinking of getting some big brakes up front. Do you think I should go back to the stock rotors then? Also, Now, Tires: I have a set of 275/30/19s on the rear, 245/35/19s on the front. Yokohama AVS Sports. I don't mind the tirs, but they're a little pricey I'm just trying to think of a tire combination that would work well. What do you guys run? Do strut tower braces make a difference in your opinion? If so, rear or front or both? Thanks a lot for the info. I simply don't want to get to the event with the car unprepared for a healthy event. Matt
_________________ 1993 Sandstone Gray Metallic VR-4 (1 of 56)
11.77@122
11.76@119
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Rich
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:24 pm |
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:44 pm Posts: 4 Location: Cedar Rapids
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>Yes, the rotors are both slotted and Dimpled. I basically got them for looks, and they're relatively inexpensive. I was thinking of getting some big brakes up front. Do you think I should go back to the stock rotors then?
If you still have them laying around, put them back on for this. They are 10X stronger than those pretty wheels--unless they are wore down below discard depth, of course.
The best and simplest big brakes for your car would be to find calipers and rotors off a 94+ 2nd gen. That's a great, inexpensive upgrade for a 1st gen car. You already have 19s on the car, so you should clear the bigger calipers just fine.
You can also upgrade to Big Red Porsche calipers for about $1,000.
>Also, Now, Tires: I have a set of 275/30/19s on the rear, 245/35/19s on the front. Yokohama AVS Sports. I don't mind the tirs, but they're a little pricey I'm just trying to think of a tire combination that would work well. What do you guys run?
I run Kuhmos, but you shouldn't. Not yet, anyway.
Instead, mount up a set of Yokohama 032R race tires on your old 17 in. street wheels. They are an excellent race tire, wear like iron, and will last you all season.
If you go to bigger brakes, you'll need to go to 94+ wheels, but you can get by for a full season on your current brakes and wheels. We all did when we started.
>Do strut tower braces make a difference in your opinion? If so, rear or front or both?
I don't use 'em.
>Thanks a lot for the info. I simply don't want to get to the event with the car unprepared for a healthy event.
Don't worry. Our cars are PERFECT for this sort of stuff. Just gotta tend to the brakes a little. You can make mods later, after you get a feel for it. If you really want to spend money, spend it on getting seat time. No matter how many mods you put on your car, the best thing you can do is drive the car on various tracks, under the tutelage of instructors. Very few people can drive to the limit of a stock 3000GT as it is.
Rich
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Supercar-Engineering
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:10 pm |
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:35 pm Posts: 6 Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
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Hey Matt,
Rich has given good recommendations already. Besides good pads (I recommend Panther Plus or XP, see my website) a very good thing to do is to remove those dust shields. They block most of the air flow to your brake rotors, making them run too hot.
I am a little bit concerned for your 19" rims. I run 275x40R-17 tires and rims and sometimes 265x35R-18 tires on stock 18" rims. I have been lucky so far but I know guys who have damaged their 19" and even 18" rims when they ran over rumble strips at the track. You need to be extra careful or find yourself stronger rims and tires that have a little higher or stiffer sidewall just for track use.
Philip
_________________ http://supercar-engineering.com
StopTech Kits (NEW!!!), AP Racing, Big Reds, and custom brake upgrades bonanza!
3/S Open tracking parts, Carbotech Panther, Bobcat and Axxis Ultimate brake pads, and more products to come.
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M-Spec
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 3:25 pm |
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:08 pm Posts: 110 Location: Faribault ,mn
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Are there any limitations on mods, or is it a free for all run what you brung type deal?
I guess my question is can you run a car that is not street legal? Interior lights roll cage lightened etc.
Thanks
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Supercar-Engineering
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 4:05 pm |
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:35 pm Posts: 6 Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
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It is not a racing event, so there are no limitations on mods that you can have. The main concern of the organisers and track owners is your and their safety. They will balk at you if you bring a NOS bottle but other that that anything goes. Make sure that your battery is tied down and fluids are not leaking, no cracks in the windshield, seat belts are working, brakes and brake lights are working. Common sense. Philip
_________________ http://supercar-engineering.com
StopTech Kits (NEW!!!), AP Racing, Big Reds, and custom brake upgrades bonanza!
3/S Open tracking parts, Carbotech Panther, Bobcat and Axxis Ultimate brake pads, and more products to come.
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My94r/t
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 9:04 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:04 am Posts: 1237 Location: Milwaukee, WI
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What tires do you recommend for competition use?
_________________ ~Joe - aka spider gear destroyer
'94 Stealth R/T
-Lightly Modded ;)
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Supercar-Engineering
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 9:37 pm |
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:35 pm Posts: 6 Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
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My94r/t wrote: What tires do you recommend for competition use? For competion Hoosiers or some racing slicks, but since we are not racing for money here, then I recommend Yokohama A032R in the H compound, Kumho (V700 or Vectoracer, not sure which is the correct one), or Toyo Proxes RA-1. Philip
_________________ http://supercar-engineering.com
StopTech Kits (NEW!!!), AP Racing, Big Reds, and custom brake upgrades bonanza!
3/S Open tracking parts, Carbotech Panther, Bobcat and Axxis Ultimate brake pads, and more products to come.
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Rich
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:16 pm |
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:44 pm Posts: 4 Location: Cedar Rapids
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Tires: Depends on your experience and goals.
First time out: Run your street tires, pumped to 40/36. I ran my Michelin Pilots for my first season 'til I wore them down.
First full season on track: Yoko 032R tires. They wear like iron and will last all season (10-15 track days)
Experienced: Depends on your finances.
Hoosiers are the fastest, most delicate, wear quickest and are the most expensive.
Kumhos are next fastest, and relatively cheap at about $135 per tire (get them lightly shaved, or you will chunk the big fat shoulder) I'm not sure of the name, because they keep changing it.
Yoko 032R is the workhorse race tire. Slower than Kuhmos, but plenty of wear.
Toyos: Only slightly better than stock. I don't understand the fuss the West Coasters make over Toyos.
Rich
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JRink
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:31 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:00 pm Posts: 871 Location: Eagle, WI
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Question about calipers... I was gearing up to paint my calipers red this weekend, however after thinking about the upcoming Speed Seekers event, I'm wondering if I'll have problems with painted calipers with road racing. Option #1 Originally I was going to purchase a can a red duplicolor (1200 degree) paint and a can of duplicolor engine clear (500 degree) paint. However I am talking myself out of doing this because I've heard: 1. duplicolor paint disolves in brake cleaner 2. duplicolor paint disolves in brake fluid (i'd imagine i'd get some fluid on my calipers when bleeding the brakes) 3. brake dust will cook into the clear coat when road racing Option #2 So next I started looking at the G2 paint package available from Tire Rack at http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/g2/caliper_paint.jsp. Again, I have a concern there because the product states it's heat resistive to 950 degrees F which I'd imagine I'll exceed when road racing. Option #3 Another option is powdercoating but I heard that keeps in heat too much. I hear Dave Best powdercoats these for people at a fair price. That being said... Would the G2 setup be good enough for me or should I look at something else? I'd hate to spend time painting my calipers if they are going to be trashed after a track event. Any thoughts on this - my main concern is using a method that is compatible with road racing considering I may find myself doing it more than once. I figure this would be a good time to get some Motul brake fluid as well.
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M-Spec
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:16 am |
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:08 pm Posts: 110 Location: Faribault ,mn
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How would people feel about having a "pit crew" at the track. I'm in the market for an enclosed trailer and if i find one in time, I could haul most of my shop to the track to take care of any issues people may have. I figure most people will be driving the 3s there, and they won't have room to haul any "emergency supplies". What do you guys think?
I know a few of you have no need for this, but it might persuade some people that otherwise would not want to attend for fear of being stranded.
I'm not saying i could solve any problem that may arise, but it couldn't hurt having some tools and know-how on site...............from someone who is not busy with thier own machine.........
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